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From: owner-traveller-digest@MPGN.COM
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Subject:   Traveller-digest V1996 #281
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Traveller-digest           Tuesday, 23 July 1996       Volume 1996 : Number 281

(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

         1. Re: A paid commercial announcement
         2. Re: Virus of my Virus
         3. Surface Area and FF&S
         4. Re: Regency and the Virus
         5. Re: Histoire de la Terre
         6. Re: The Wonder Years and True Reference Works
         7. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #280
         8. Re: traveller
         9. Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #273

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:32:18 -0700
Subject: Re: A paid commercial announcement

Jeffery M. Miller wrote:
> 
> hmmm...(sure to attract flames) Sounds a little bit like modern day Quebec!
> 
> tee hee! ;-)

Whooooo...  That's sure to attract flames.  WOOF!!!


Derek Stanley

------------------------------

From: derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:37:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Virus of my Virus

Wes Payne wrote:
> 
>Thus spake derek stanley <dstanley@direct.ca>:
> 
>[Derek makes a minor RC/Regency mixup, and I zing him for it]
> 
>>You know I should have known this, and you are the first person to zing
>>me on it.  I was thinking about Peacemakers and Snakes.  There is a
>>section in the main TNE book about domesticated Viri in the Regency but
>>this is super secret.  Shhhhhhhh!!!  Don't tell anyone Shhhhhhhh!!!
> 
>Huh?  What?  I'm sorry; I wasn't paying attention.  I was busy wondering
>if the Regency Navy was trying to pull some sort of 'fast one' with 
>their 'Man Out Of the Loop' control systems for the Project Blackhart 
>raider ships.  I'm probably just being paranoid.  I had a great uncle 
>that used to live on Trin, y'know...

Trin...  Never heard of it and even if I did I'd deny it.  Just a 
propaganda tool of the Man.  That's what it is, propaganda put forth by 
the man.  I know the truth, it's all part of a hideous alien/human 
cross-breeding experiment controlled by "The Smoking Man."  He's still 
alive after all these years...  

Oops gotta run, flashing lights at the windows.

8)

Derek Stanley

------------------------------

From: Wes Payne <n9548326@cc.wwu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 21:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Surface Area and FF&S

Thus spake anwfh@orion.alaska.edu (William F. Hostman):

> >That may be true for water-going vessels, but the title of this thread
> >includes the word "SPACE", as in outer space.  The point I made, that Mr.
> >Broussard noted, was that many of the capital ships in Traveller could
> >accelerate just as quickly as could fighters, negating their
> >speed/maneuverability edge.  With the attention required to reaction mass
> >(which limited just how much acceleration could be done), an edge for
> >fighters over capital ships might be afforded in TNE/BL, but in earlier
> >starship combat systems, there were many ships which, although being
> >thousands of times larger than fighters, were just as nimble.  This
> >problem will return along with thruster plates.
 
> Whoa! Wait ONE DAMNED MINUTE!!! Surface area increases as 6*(r^2), whereas
> volume is r^3... but thrust out (in Traveller, FF&S) is DIRECTLY
> PROPORTIONAL TO SURFACE AREA; with some small scaling efficiencies. So,
> thrust is limited to roughly 2*r^2 (due to facing problems) available for
> thrust. (designed too many starships from decplans by component fitting).
> So a Battleship runs into the problems of nowhere to mount it's 6G drive
> AND it's weapons.

Judging from all the capital letters, you seem pretty adamant, so let's 
drag out FF&S and a calculator and try to come up with a design where the 
surface is dominated by HEPlaR thrusters.  Before I begin, though, let me 
point out that I was referring to earlier combat systems when I cited 
designs for capital ships which had just as much acceleration as 
fighters.  Keep in mind that FF&S was the first design system that paid 
any heed whatsoever to surface area.  I think that I may have invalidated 
your argument already, but just to be sure, let's crank out the figures 
for a 1,000,000 displacement ton sphere with 6G HEPlaR thrusters.

Why a sphere?  It has the lowest surface area/volume ratio.  According to 
FF&S, our usable surface area is 274,000 square meters.  Actually, on 
checking back, I find that configuration does not affect usable surface 
area, so what I've just done is select the most surface area-efficient 
design.  Silly me.

For simplicity's sake, we assume that the weight/volume ratio does not 
exceed fifteen tons per cubic meter.  That lets us use the 10 Tt per 
displacement ton formula.  The result:  required thrust is 10,000,000 tons.

Hull surface area used by HEPlaR thrusters is Tt / 200.  The result:  
50,000 square meters are used.  This leaves us 224,000 square meters for 
other external fittings.  Contra-gravity generators, if used, will take 
up 27,400 square meters, leaving us 196,600 square meters.  Granted, 
we've only got 71.8% of our original surface area left, but I suspect 
that we're going to be hard pressed to use ALL of it up.

BTW:  Thruster Plates, if used, have the same surface area formula 
(Tt/200).

These ratios are actually constant for all given displacements, so all 6G 
ships that do not weigh more than fifteen tons per cubic meter will have 
just over 70% useful surface area after HEPlaR thrusters (or thruster 
plates) and CG lifters are considered.  Variations in other systems 
requiring surface area, such as communicators, sensors, and weapons, are 
too dynamic to consider in this discussion, although I encourage anyone 
who came up with a viable design, but suffered a shortage of surface area 
during the design process that required compromises, to share their 
examples with the class.

My original point was to correct someone who started talking about 
surface-going vessels while I was talking about space vessels.  Maybe 
your problem is that you've designed too many starships from deckplans by 
component fitting.  By using the actual design rules as they were meant 
to be used, you'll find that my point still stands.  It's important to 
note in the case of HEPlaR designs, or any other design that has a 
thruster system requiring reaction mass, a large ship, although capable 
of similar acceleration, may have to lay off the throttle more than a 
fighter would for fear of running out of reaction mass.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Payne, known to you as:  n9548326@cc.wwu.edu
Western Washington University -- Bellingham, WA -- The Great Northwet!  
"What is FUN?  Why is it usually colored BRIGHT PINK, and where does
 it go when JESSE HELMS comes around?" 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Wes Payne <n9548326@cc.wwu.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 22:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Regency and the Virus

Thus spake Lewis <lewis@chara.gsu.edu>:

[My comment about how the RC was the first to co-opt domesticated 
(Peacemaker) strains in their starship computers on a routine basis snipped]

> Actually the Regency uses them also.  If you read the Referee's Section
> on Avery, it talks about using domesticated specialy bred virus
> strains. Also the Department in charge of fighting the Virus keeps some
> strains of Virus on hand.  

These are definitely special cases.  The comment I was correcting was 
about the use of tame Virii in shipboard computers on a routine basis.  
In "Vampire Fleets", the Reformation Coalition encounters a Virus strain 
that is not intent on annihilating or dominating mankind, but on 
peacefully coexisting with them.  It is the 'children' of this strain 
that came to inhabit the central computers of many RC vessels.

> I think that the upper levels of the government keep Virus strains,
> knowing how useful it could be, while telling the people that Virus is
> evil and must be destroyed.    The Regency puts on this great act of
> having changed from the old bad days of the Imperium, but still does
> alot of the same stuff.  In the RSB, there is a paragraph on how useful
> lies are, ie Norris promoting himself etc.

The ironies are fascinating.  It seems that no matter how much Norris 
wanted to 'play it straight' with the people, he really couldn't.  Of 
course, some of the more radical propositions regarding domesticated 
Virii, such as using them to control the Project Blackheart strike 
cruisers, were struck down by Norris himself.  The Regency Artificial 
Sentience Analysis Committee (RASAC) did keep many virus strains, some 
tame, others not, around for study, and this proved to be a major source 
of embarassment when some of their papers were leaked to the press in 1201.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wes Payne, known to you as:  n9548326@cc.wwu.edu
Western Washington University -- Bellingham, WA -- The Great Northwet!  
"What is FUN?  Why is it usually colored BRIGHT PINK, and where does
 it go when JESSE HELMS comes around?" 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <gpvll@hk.super.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:32:11 +0800 (HKT)
Subject: Re: Histoire de la Terre

Glenn M. Goffin a ecrit:

>
>>From: Roderick Darroch Elliott <gpvll@hk.super.net>
>
>>>O Canada, O Canada,
>>>wie treu sind Deine Blaetter!
>
>>        Maintenant, pour ceux d'entre nous qui ne parlons pas l'Allemand,
>>pourrais-tu nous traduire tout ca pour qu'on puisse decider s'il faut te
>>flamber ou non :)?
>
>O Canada, O Canada
>Comme vrais (ou constants) sont tes feuilles!
>
>Cette phrase vient de deux chansons -- O Canada, le hymne national de
>Canada, et O Tannenbaum, un Noel allemand.  Tannenbaum veut dire sapin, un
>arbol avec des feuilles toujours verts.  Les chansons ont des rythmes
>similaires.
>
>- --Glenn

        Ah... je reconnais maintenant l'air en question.  Au Quebec, il est
parfois connu sous le titre "Mon beau sapin" au lieu de son titre
Allemand... mais de toute facon je ne reconnaissais pas les paroles.

        Ou as-tu appris ton Francais?



+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         From the desk of either                       |
|                                                                       |
|    Roderick Darroch Elliott                   John Stephen Wishart    |
|                                                                       |
|                           gpvll@hk.super.net                          |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+


------------------------------

From: Stewart Eyres <spe@astro.keele.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:43:24 +0100
Subject: Re: The Wonder Years and True Reference Works

Hi there

>The fact that there were Vilani Pacification Campaigns implies that
>the former Ziru Sirka (or, Vilani Cultural Region) did not join
>voluntarily.

Well, as much as previously published Imperialhistory can be taken as
true in respect of T4, this isn't correct.  The Vilani are suppossed
to have joined the Imperium shortly after it was declared (suggesting
that they were instrumental in supporting it's formation), and the
Vilani Pacification Campaign several decades later was against parts
of the Vilani *Domain* (Dagudashaag?), and was carried out by the
(Vilani) Archduke of Vland.  In the same way, the Sylean Pacification
Campaign didn't pacify the Sylean home worlds, but parts of the Sylean
Domain.

I think one of the Traveller's Digests included a concise history of
the Imperium, which I think was predominantly previously published
information combined into a coherent whole, with perhaps some new
ideas.  Nice picture of an Emperor (Cleon the Mad?) on the Iridium
Throne, I seem to recall.

Stewart Eyres <spe@astro.keele.ac.uk>

------------------------------

From: JScott9996@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:54:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #280

UNSUBSCRIBE traveller-digest

------------------------------

From: JScott9996@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 03:52:30 -0400
Subject: Re: traveller

UNSUBSCRIBE traveller

------------------------------

From: "V.A.G." <GREI5001@uni-trier.de>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:57:47 MET
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #273

Zhodani agents report that owner-traveller-digest@MPGN.C wrote:

- -> Subject: Terran History:  Canada
- -> 
- -> This looked right on Eudora when I sent it, but I guess that
- -> a-umlaut doesn't survive the Internet.  It should of course be O
- -> Canada, O Canada, wie treu sind Deine Blaetter!
Actually, it should be "Wie gruen (green) sind deine Blaetter", but that 
depends on regional differences, so the other one is correct, but 
a lot less used, too!

V.A.G.                                              FNORD!

- ------ Volker A. Greimann.......Grei5001@uni-trier.de ----
- ------ I play Traveller,I Play INWO,I play Diplomacy  ---- 

- -"Don't hold me up: I am just barely ahead of insanity!!!"

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #281
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